Episode 57 · 53:34
The 80/20 Rule: When Finishing Is Harder Than Starting
Starting gives you novelty; finishing asks for discipline. Dan and Tom explore why the last twenty percent of a project can consume most of the effort, especially once the exciting decisions have already been made.
Through product ideas, communication tools and AI, they argue for smaller definitions of done, simpler language and systems that keep work moving after motivation leaves.
The useful bits
What to take with you
- Expect the final stretch to feel disproportionately hard and plan energy for it.
- Reduce the size of the next finish line instead of reopening the whole project.
- Discipline is easier when the remaining work is visible and specific.
- Clear language reduces the friction between understanding an idea and acting on it.
Watch the conversation
The original episode.
Full conversation
Transcript
Transcript generated from YouTube captions. Dan/Tom speaker attribution is AI-assisted and may occasionally be incorrect.
Actually if anything you should we should take the transcript of their conversation and then explain this like a 5-year-old and see what that would kind of like articulate in the same way because to me I feel like probably create a YouTube channel with that yeah it would be like smoking mirrors when people use fancy words sometimes and you just got to recognize who's listening you know you can still have the same type of elevated conversation with simplified language doesn't miss.
The Mark I think it comes with iteration I've been thinking maybe in the background here i' put some like shelves so then I could have like a light on it and all the rest of it but I don't know cuz this wall is the plain wall and I've just like rotated so I don't know cuz I i' quite like another desk on the other side so then I could do like um harby based stuff like the 3D printer could be.
On there or Warhammer stuff that I still have not built they're still in that box that I've not painted I keep on realizing that you do like 80% of the job then you get bored and you move on so then that like the 80% doesn't exist almost and then you move on to something else that's more more inspiring you do 80% of that and then you kind of like get bored or it gets hard and then you move on then you.
Do 80% something else you've got a bunch of 80% all around and you can't quite get it over the line because the last 20% takes 80% of the energy to to complete the last 20% you know so it's always a bit of a balance um to to some degree but yeah so you're just changing from a motivational based to uh discipline based yeah exactly it's probably not as fun for a hobby to do the discipline based one yeah it's um I saw a graphic.
Of exactly that where it's was like motivation is like up and down oh and like this and crazy and like discipline is like like the steady steady Eddie as it were going along which is important so but yeah so we have our first um paid subscriber for one thing I want thing and you've done some cool designs so what what what were you thinking if it's not top secret we yeah we can go straight into it so don't be.
A don't be a [Music] stop welcome to another episode of doorstop today we're going to talk about the fact that we've got our first ever subscriber for our to-do app whooop enter confetti and fog horns and all the rest of it so I have redesigned the app again or done a bit of a refresh all in the name of kind of improving the Aesthetics the usability um some of the kind of things that I've found problems with or.
Something that I want to do quicker so for example like I in this new version I'll put in like key key key shortcuts because right now when you type a new task in and you try and press enter it just gives you a new line it doesn't like add the task so if I hold command shift uh sorry command enter it should like enter the task and like submit the task and little things like that I think would be cool to to introduce but yeah.
Our um the one thing is our to-do app that Tom kind of conceptually came up with and designed and then I've built and then we've both kind of iterated a little bit on it and um yeah it's great to see that we've got our first subscriber and that happens when they've completed 10 tasks so we we allow you to do it for free once you've completed 10 things which is not the same as adding 10 tasks it's only when you complete.
Those 10 tasks so let's say you get stuck on those 10 tasks you won't get paid uh or if you split those 10 tasks you won't have to pay it's only when you complete 10 um and I guess that's a test of whether or not it's been integrated into somebody's like day-to-day life as it were yeah so yeah the the iteration this iteration is just like Aesthetics and one New Concept is right now we have this uh flow of like if you complete a.
Task it sends you to the rewards list you select a reward and then you say then it's like cool go and do that walk like reward yourself with the walk or go and reward yourself with a snack or whatever and that is a takeover so once once you're ready for the next task you say done and then it'll give you the next single task however what would be cool is if it was like right I'm done for the day I've done my last task I'm.
Like finished finished I want basically some motivation or some encouragement that I've had some sort of like efficiency so if I click this like check a flag it will then tell you your day summary or like a 24-hour summary that you've like completed six tasks or something like that and uh we're going to add some like gifs and stuffff um or gifs do do you say gifs some people say gifs but it's literally wrong yeah GIF I think maybe it's an.
American thing they say Jeffs but um yeah gifs putting gifts to add a bit more character just reminded of my name's Jeff it's like my name's GIF it's that Borat sty it's um oh who is it Bruno no it's off 20 is it 21 Jump Street oh right right yeah the musle guy that guy I don't know if it's on 21 street but yeah he says on something right right yeah so um so that'll be cool and then.
Now it's a case of I've not got I've got to make sure I don't fall into the pitfall of doing 80% and then never releasing it or getting like stuck so the App Store is notorious of like spotting things that like new policies that they've introduced and now you've not followed the like your latest release isn't following this new rule so we're going to have to send it back to you to kind of like input the new rule.
Um so I'm hoping that that stuff won't happen so I'm like if you do small super super small chunks so I was thinking do I take each new screen and just take one screen at a time but then I was like actually maybe I should just take one aspect so a part of it is like you know how in the to-do list when you go to the list view you've got the active completed and done at the top like if I.
Just shifted that down to the bottom because your fingers are at the bottom and it's easier than to to switch across the tabs maybe that should be the first release herey we just shifted the tabs from the top to the bottom and just get it out cuz as you probably now know that you guys have heard us talk so much about momentum and positivity and like keeping the ball rolling um I think it's important to do that when you're.
Developing something because it it can really take out of you especially if you get stuck on a bug that you never thought you were going to get stuck on like oh why are these tabs not changing or what and then you go down a rabbit hill and then you're like stuck you spend like 80% of your time trying the fix this thing and then you've never like delivered something so it's kind of switching back to the hour of effort.
Rather than like actual completion as it were um CU sometimes you might spend a lot of hours to complete this one small piece so it's not reflective of the energy and you might not know the answer and that's okay could you build it in a way that you build a new screen but it's like a a tick option of like try the new screen in let's say the settings so there a way of dropping it in to find.
Out what kinks are throwing at you but then once you built it all you'll just then remove that tick button and then just have the new screens yeah it's called feature Flags so you can build your own feature Flags or you can use libraries to help you um initiate feature Flags but it's one of those things that um it's like a an extra piece then to come and remove it later so sometimes it's a little bit easier to.
Iteratively get somewhere um because essentially a feature flag means you have to build the whole entire new screen and then build a switch between them so it requires more effort to get to there so I'm thinking maybe I'll just adapt the single current screen with small little changes to get to the end goal rather than having a feature flag but it people do it different ways again if you're a solo person you might not be bothered about feat f up but yeah it's a.
Plausible approach definitely makes sense in some cases to be able to do that um in this case it might be like too much of a too much of a big deal because really you want people using it straight away right so if you just iteratively add the changes in yeah that makes sense that's interesting yeah that that makes sense it's it's it's sort of working backwards of how do you I guess evolve product a to product B and what is the steps and.
What are the most easiest steps that you can do and that's the thing if there's more updates I actually quite like updates and reading um if there's anything new and the features and that type of stuff I'm aware that people that don't like change don't like it but normally particularly with monzo they have the labs element that you can tral out um new features I normally jump on it because I'm there going well a you can have an input if you.
Don't like it so then they might tweak it and B if let's say more people like it than not is going to be forced upon you anyway so you might as well learn how it works best in your environment but I'm that people don't do that and then it's forced upon them then they're really annoyed because they can't go back to the old version rather than you can trial and test with the new version and funly enough like when you forced so.
This is why there's like a a balance of gathering too much information because chances are there will be lots of people that do not want the change because as you said people don't like change they know what they they know where everything is and now they have to relearn stuff so there's like a friction there um but in some cases if you know that this is a like an effective thing to do for everybody then just doing it.
Straight away rather than like checking is this effective I know that's based on assumption that I I am assuming that this is effective but generally speaking you do want to move in that way like if you think of monzo the thing or Facebook the amount of changes that they've gone through that people have hated like even monzo changing their name they used to be called Mondo right and it was like oh so weird why have they changed it to.
Monzo now that's like weird but now I can't think of I bet nobody knows that it was called Mondo I think it was Mondo so it's like Mondo sounds weird now monzo sounds absolutely like perfect so I think it's all about over time the thing that you hate becomes the normality like people used to hate the Facebook profile stuff changing now it's fine people don't care right they've got used to the new ones so there's always that like learning curve to people you.
Try and make that as small as possible but it's going to happen so you might as well just do it you know you got like you're not going to please everybody you know you take that into life anyway right not everybody's going to like you there's a probability of a like there's a chance that a small amount of people won't like you so yeah I about a clip from Mr Beast today saying everyone like everyone used to bully him being like.
Why why you're recording videos you're bit of a weirdo but then it's like when you're famous you're a genius and everyone's like oh you're amazing it's so cool how you're so diligent the whole time and it's funny I was like n none of those words said prior to me making his millions or billions or even just any money I think it is that funny thing it is unless people have bought into you or your vision dream I think it probably is.
You a Nutter until you've made it to some extent a absolutely absolutely and it's just remembering that everything is an opinion like somebody will like it somebody will hate it deep down what do you want to do you want to make YouTube videos so keep going and and not be affected by the external pressures as it were but yeah the reason why I've looked at the to-do list um is one I'm stuck on something else so I want something new.
To do I'm I'm on an 80% on something else so I want something fresh to do and um two there was this video I watched about like this guy wanted to make a million pound company a million pound like product and he yeah and he created like 23 sites it and he's looked at through his old his sites that some of them are making money still uh and he's like these things are not going to get me to a million pounds they're like not.
Big enough they're not used uh daily enough so he's like really what you want is like something that actually solves a problem something that somebody uses every day um and something that you care about those people right enough to want to solve their problem um and that there's no free version of it that is a paid version straight away so I was like th those are good rules um or like benchmarks as to creating a million pound company yeah and I was like what.
Are people using every day or what do I pay for that I don't mind paying and I think yeah cool Netflix Disney you could create a Content uh like a system or a Content platform but chances are it would take so much to like negotiate getting decent content on board right like a new YouTube of some sort so that would be difficult to do but people would pay for that and they would probably use it every day because we're.
Always looking for entertainment right um entertainment could be pseudo for like distraction but that's not good there but um Detachment um so viewing but the other thing I was like when I asked um I think I was using the new llama so Facebook have come out with the new llm um large language model which is their version of GPT right um it's called llama 3 um 3.1 so I just try and CH with that and I was like tell me like.
Somebody's like typical day so like they're waking up right so an alarm clock an alarm clock could be something that you use every day that you could pay for but I'm like no I can't bother then it's like um I've always thought the thing that gets replenish is like you wash your hair right you you like wash yourself and typically once you found some in the works you stick with it so you could go down like some sort.
Of product like hard not Hardware like um an actual physical product um but that's kind of like chemicals all the rest hopefully not chemicals but you'd have to make sure that it's good for the human body it's bit detailed then you're like oh somebody's taking pills so they have to remember when they're taking pills and I'm like okay something to remind you taking pills but I'm not bothered about that and Apple has something like that already then it's.
Like people are going to eat now the thing that I do I do order meals in I use planty and um they're like plant-based meals they come every two weeks a bunch of different meals and you like bung them in the oven or the microwave and you eat them and I found that is probably one of of the like things that's like changed my life for the better um in just having that oh I need to cook or I need to think about.
What I want to eat or or I need to go and get get the thing that I want to eat you know all that thinking time I've eliminated and all that like uh deliberation or uncertainty I've eliminated um and I would think that doing something like that with the Nuance of um like if you could do like glutenfree or dairy free type meals I think it'd be really cool but again take a long long time to do it but if I.
Had if I had some like cooking experience i' would definitely do like a a meals based company cuz like I'm not sure if I told you about the Zimmer guys you know the Zimmer guys um I think you told me yeah the guy chunks was like advertising their meals and they and they've done really well um again theyve focused more so on like healthy and like protein and all that stuff um and that's really cool um then it's kind of like.
Cool you do some sort of like hary things which is like the entertainment stuff and then you go to sleep again so it's like tracking your sleep so I'm like out of all those places what can you do to like solve somebody's problem and I would like if I if I had the kind of like effort to bother doing something I think some sort of like meals delivery meals but the trouble is you'd have to do that just in the UK initially and it.
Would be harder to spin up and it would be a lot of money to like get right with the chefs and stuff but I think all these like meal delivery things are very interesting especially cost of living and like food waste you can eliminate food waste by kind of like giving exact portion sizes and hopefully because you're doing it on mass you could bring down the cost of meals so whereas people are buying stuff because if you buy a.
Bunch of fruit and Verge whatever like it's quite expensive and then you chop all that into a meal and the meal's quite expensive right but if you buy it like on mass hopefully the price of everything would be like less um yeah but then I was like another thing just finally before you jump in and I want to hear your idea is the to-do app is like managing the tasks that you've got for for the day is something that's like.
Embedded in there and like a mood tracker type thing yeah um so that's why I was like oh maybe I should just go a little bit deeper into our to-do list because I do use every day Kima does use it every day you I hope use it every day so that is something that I'm that I'm using a lot and maybe is a case of just doing a better version like doing a free version of it or well actually Maybe not.
Maybe only doing a paid version of it and and so forth so that's what led me to redesign some of the to-do list todoist to-do list that's something else that's cool but yeah what what would you be thinking about when it comes to something that you use every day I think when you talking about food one thing that I thought was I guess more interesting is imagine if um Chinese takeaways I was thinking initially but obviously it can happen.
Further takeaways as well is if they have like a their aim is pre um I guess ready meals for the next day CU obviously there's an assumption of once you've uh you might have over so then you eat it the next day not everyone necessarily does that so could you do like actually you buy it on a Monday to eat it on a Friday save standing in I queue on a Friday or whatever um or that you can.
Block by a certain portion of food that you like to have that you can freeze in that regard or the flip side of just using takeaways that aren't open in the day to be a meal prep location for people that are sort of chefs and that type of thing um because I'm pretty sure they'll they'll be Keen to rent their space as long as you don't break anything yeah there's lots of things in London that now is like delivery will.
Run from like a kitchen Warehouse so they'll have like a warehouse type thing where they have multiple kitchens and the delivery drivers will go to these like industrial units to pick up the food so these kitchens are like um I think the phrase is like ghost kitchens because they don't actually have a face or a restaurant or anything but they make the meals and what you'll notice is um there was one place that I went to I I saw they literally had 20 deliveroo.
Kind of like card machines all registered under different restaurant names serving the same food so interestingly it's like a breakfast place so they would say for example like um let's say they said Tom's Breakfast Club right right that would be one restaurant with certain pictures of food then there'd be like a second iteration which is s similar breakfast food just different photos and it' be like Dan's breakfast bar and it would literally be the same restaurant right and because.
They're like oh and and what's interesting is like if you use different genders let's say you call it like um Sophie's breakfast bar like you might get more people going towards a female name for example than a male name or whatever so they could kind of like AB test or they could be like American Bar and Grill like they could AB test like styles of food and also gender specific names and whatever but it literally is the same place because if you look in.
The details it's coming from the same unit and I thought that was genius genius I'm like Pro people like working around the sift because if you've got the Monopoly as in like if you are the top five breakfast places but they're all named different like the user doesn't mind right but you've like facilitated it so chances are the who don't care because essentially a sale is a sale they get paid anyway a customer doesn't care because if the food is good.
You will know the food is good right like if it's bad but I what I think is interesting is the fact that potentially you would have different ratings right so maybe somebody rate something like better in one and and it's actually the same wonder if you deliberately like add extra delivery time to some of them so then they're more likely to go with one option or whatever or like deliberately make the food bad just to like show that.
They're not the same people it comes back down to you know that like um video where somebody's selling eggs and there two people selling eggs on like this person to the right is selling eggs for 202 and you're selling them for £10 or whatever and then it's like well hang in a minute loads of people are buying my eggs so this person's like right now I'm selling them for5 pound and then I'm like cool I'll buy all your eggs buy all.
The eggs and then now I put mine up to 440 like it's that classic video right so they could do that as then have this like price battle as it were with themselves because ultimately they they're took they're playing a volume game rather than the very specific one order is the fact that we're getting all the orders doesn't matter if one is 30% cheaper than the other one it's like the volume is the the important thing because your Chef is sat there.
Nonetheless isn't he like or chefs um are sat there in the left so so yeah it's really really interesting I thought it's like a clever play but yeah talk to me about K on talking about your ideas so yeah food using Chinese restaurants or other style restaurants I think have a look to see if I can uh open my uh list of things that'll be more interesting oh yeah this is this is on the back of your podcast episode right you saying you.
Were listing stuff oh no this is my other list of just job lists good um I think yeah the one thing so the the to-do app I think I've always struggled with knowing I guess managing tasks SL to-dos is always been a difficult topic for me probably with my dyslexia um so that I always like to go back to that to see if we can iterate it and help it um a lot of service based stuff I'm currently trying to slowly upload each.
Item to um fat llama to be able to rent stuff because I'm there going well actually if it's just sitting here it might as well be used plus I was half thinking on the opposite side of I can share it to friends to be like if you need any of my gear just let me know um because then I can just hand it over to you so it's a clever way of documenting I guess what you've got I did spot a.
YouTuber that um it's got a website that shows exactly what's in his like kitchen his bathroom his Tech bag his this his that and the RO affiliate links so then basically when you're watching his life you're basically go if someone likes the look of it because someone might be like where did that person get that desk from it is trying to bring that more in play that I think Netflix Prime YouTube haven't tapped into imagine if they linked up every.
Item that's on the screen and tell you where to buy it and take a commission when you're watching a film and you're like let's say you're doing your bathroom and you're like I love that mirror I want to know where it's from Vibe if you can link up that content that you take in that you can literally click and buy on the item um I think that's what I'm trying to lean towards of can I show exactly what's in my life.
And to help other people because then I can say oh this mic is really good here's an affiliate link I get a bit of money you get what you want and you know where the link is and it's dead easy for you so I think it's just that Simplicity um working with Dad on mus lingo so translating I think learning Welsh for us so I guess that's a day-to-day element from a practice point of view yeah learning languages yeah um and then.
Going down the life coaching route so I'd quite like to create a system so it'll be suggesting books apps systems um that basically yes you're coaching along the way but things like an app might get them from A to B A book might get from B to C and then you might step in and just tweak a couple of bits um so you're the coach but you're providing more I guess you're delivering them resources at the start it'll be.
Stuff that you've come across but then by the end hopefully you've created the apps and the books and the stuff because you've learned from the experiences that then you can develop it more to them but yeah those are the types of things that less ideas probably more applications of things I'm trying to do yeah to add to your um product referrals based on YouTubers I thought I I forgot that YouTube uh removed links from your comments so there was a video what that.
I saw and I was like oh that's a cool item if I find the item I'd be like hey guys if you're interested in that item click this link right commented in Tik Tok and it got removed right but you could use it as like a Chrome extension so you'd install the Chrome extension and then anything that you watched it would be able to bring up in the sidebar like what is being shown but you would have to do some sort of an analysis on.
Like the YouTube videos to find the products and then find them in in Amazon unless there was a way that you could essentially find um typical things that this person has been known to use so would necessarily have to be in the video dup have you come across dup at all I think it's like d. cuk or.com is that where you see a product online and then you go d.com theurl and it will give you the same product but in.
Different sites yeah it'll basically we must be seeing the same stuff cuz I think the last two things you mentioned I saw those exact saying pieces of content online and I'm like oh interesting and I saw literally yesterday I saw an advert for dup or like somebody playing around with dup and I was like oh this is actually a very good idea yeah so you basically somehow tap into that so it might not necessarily be the exact product sometimes it's similar products.
But it's for a more affordable price um but it's basically directly to Kim because I thought that was a great idea that's funny it's basically pulling the power away from the brand and giving it to the individual that wants the product so if you're like I want this sofa from this expensive brand check it in there and then it might give you an alternative that looks exactly the same I don't know from an any application point of view it might be different but.
Might be way cheaper so you'd basically tap into something like that so it gives you a array of different companies or something yeah it's like the uh is it honey which is like discount codes and all the rest of I think they got sold to Google at some point for some like ridiculous amount money but yeah I think the renewed sense of um like compare the market type stuff for products we've never really quite got it with products because what we do.
Is just we just go to Amazon to try and find it you know like we do a lot of like manual work ourselves to find the same product but for cheaper but if it was there some site that could just dynamically do that for you it would be far better better wouldn't it so yeah the trouble is you won't you won't always get referral fees because you might be pointing out somebody else that doesn't give you referral um like an.
Affiliate link sorry but yeah yeah it is interesting talking about referral links I've had another person sign up for octopus energy somehow so my50 is on its way I'm like we need one of those ratings of what we're making money with yeah yeah my octopus energy app so I built a really simple um octopus energy octopus is a gas and electric supplier um and they have an open AI open API that you can get your usage data from so.
I built a really really simple app and I I've had over like 10,000 downloads now which is like insane it's because o just on iOS isn't it yeah octopus are reaching out I don't think I've even launched it on Android yet have I launched it on Android no I don't think I have like that's the thing I need to do as well um that's because octopus are not only in the UK they're in Italy and I think other parts of Europe uh I think.
Yeah I think they're in Spain not sure if they're in Germany I think yeah yeah so they're in other European countries so there's loads of people from Italy like downloading the app and stuff so I'm like how do I convert these people now if you have an octopus account cool you can log in with your API key and your account number if you don't click here to get octopus and that is my referral my affiliate link however I.
Want to see if I can get these people into like a paid version of the account so I just need to add more stats uh cuz I look at the other apps and they have like better stats and stuff and I need to add real time because um I now have a real time device that tells me real time usage I need to be able to add that into the app but I've just not touched it so with the affiliate link that Dan was.
Saying is when you've got an account and you share your link when that person creates an account and maybe does their first purchase or whatever they get 50 in their account and Dan gets 50 um so that's what the referral link of he's got 50 it's basically someone wanting to know what octopus is about clicking on it creating an account and probably doing their first payment or whatever I think you have to engage with it in a certain way so it's quite.
Cool so that's the second time it's happened it's the third time that it's happened but it's the second time that somebody looks promising so I have three people one person is successful the other person is not successful this is the third one and I hope that this is actually something that will be like they'll go all the way through to to pay their first bill and that's when I get 50 good I think if you invite a business.
It's £100 is it I think I was like what if you took every referral or affiliate link business span up like a kind of a partner app so let's say with Riverside right they do a referral if you created some sort of like Riverside app you might not be able to call it Riverside but maybe you could call it like Riverside partner or Riverside something Riverside do discount yeah like and it's just your affiliate link or ride Riverside or some.
Sort of like thing like an app right and it says have an account log in here don't have an account click here and then You' basically get an affiliate link but you'd have to be careful because again you'd have to just make sure that it's like of value and it you'd have to run off things that have apis so maybe Riverside doesn't have an API but they just have referral links but yeah it's a it's really interesting one really interesting more things on.
Your to-do list aren't we probably not helping you out I mean I'm I'm all good for ideas ideas are good for motivation so I don't have an idea but I guess it's more of a suggestion decisions decisions decisions decisions with the internet with social media with everything I feel like there's more decisions either in products even in holidays what location you stay how you stay and that type of thing so I guess the the area of how do you help.
People make decisions either people might want to make quick ones or slow ones but good ones and it's like figuring out the sort of the triangle of energy effort and Outsourcing or whatever I can't remember what it what it would be in in this regard and I guess it's like how do you help people speed up that process because I guess I've noticed recently I'm not that good at having rest and I think I've actually learned I'll look on.
Airbnb or I'll look on a going abroad or going locally I see all the options that I like the look of then I'm like because there's so many options I'm like I don't know which one to go so I end up not going to any of them and then carry on working so in the space of decision making I don't know how it can because I know one thing that I found really cool with um the slack so the messaging.
Service that that me and Dan use and usually businesses use is on the app you can view things very similar to like a Tinder swipe so you view like a message and then you can swipe left or right so one keeps it un R and one reads it so it's a quick way of rinsing through like a summary of what messages you've received you can be like unread red unread red unre red right you complete for the day so then it's a good way of.
Sort of fleshing things out I think I I wish because it'd be great if unfortunately that's a feature right it's not a business but yeah so if you span out again you wouldn't be able to get hold of the WhatsApp uh the WhatsApp messages cuz they're all encrypted probably but if you could create some like feature WhatsApp would create a feature that would summarize chats that you've not looked at in a while that'd be so helpful because they Google.
Actually does it so Google have their own chat app inside Gmail um and if you come to a chat and you've not seen any messages it summarizes like hey like Bob's been chatting about this and you know Sarah's been chatting about this and then you can read it um so I think that's really really helpful like Dynamic summaries If people could do that in your family what I was literally watching um a football podcast today with Gary neille and I Wright and Roy ke.
And the lady that Jill I think her name is right um and it's funny because they were basically they were doing like one of ones of basically things that they hate and um one of them was like WhatsApp groups there's something about with an iMessage group you Ponder you think should I involve this person or not and it's a slow process and then you invite them and then it's something that you're more likely to use they're like WhatsApp groups there's something that.
You're instantly in a group loads of people are chatting about loads of stuff and it's like it's very invasive and they're like they don't they don't like that obviously where's the email you're stuck in an email Emil chain to you're getting everyone's WhatsApp it's like what's the in between that sometimes you want to know what's going on but you don't want to hear everyone's thoughts on every topic that's where sort of I guess the email side is useful and.
Practical but that's where they were like I think IM message because it feels like it's more of a commitment when you create a group without a message which I just thought was really funny being in a million in one WhatsApp groups yeah for some reason there's a bunch of like crypto like get quick get rich quick stuff that I keep on getting added to that I have no idea how that is happening probably because my phone number is on the internet because I run.
A business right but um yeah it's infuriating when you get added to these things and it would be cool if they had this like summary based app I wonder if they exist because aren't there apps that like can catalog like all of your messages into one single app so if you gave me permission then maybe there could be a WhatsApp filter app you give me permission to look at all your whatsapps and ESS entally I don't show you any of the whatsapps I just show you.
Summaries and then if you want to chat I will link you back to Whatsapp like that would be a great like Time saer app so you just never have WhatsApp open you just have this like summary app and it would summarize your iMessages your things cuz I'm sure there's an app that sends multiple messages in it's like how can you so you got your email your sort of professional communication tool you have your um messages which is becoming.
More and more invasive and you need a full-time job just to keep up with it and then you have your phone call I still feel like the link in between a text and a phone call like voice notes dictation I don't feel like it's been made the most of because I think if you could have a summary of it gets let's say read out to you similar to I guess Siri reading through your messages and saying do you want to reply and you.
Could be like yeah reply with this right next do this do this so then you're basically having mini coners like a mini conversation summary of let's say everything that's gone on over your day there might be like a 10 minute half an hour chat rather than keeping up to date with everything but then it can tag you to oh you were tagged in this like 20 messages ago that's specific to you and then you can address it there and then.
Which I guess I think it will be the AI world might take that been like how can you integrate that you can just talk at Ai and it fills in the gaps yeah that that makes sense there is a platform called text.com and that allows you to um have one inbox for all your messages it looks more like it's a an app um a Mac app than an actual iPhone app um but this allows you to summarize with AI so you.
Could say summarize the last 15 messages and then it literally says Sarah and Alex plan a mountain trip coordinating dates with friends Emily and Mark they choose May 20 to 22 and discuss essential gear kind of thing so it it can also draft a response for you I think I'm like we are going to ultimately have ai chatting with AIS and we are just going to be facilitating that so these WhatsApp groups are going to be AIS sharing cat videos with each.
Other and then it'll just summarize to as hey you were sending Cat videos to your friends kind of thing and they were sending Cat videot back to you literally like what's that film is it like Wally or whatever where there's this like big guy in this seat and he's just like controlling a bunch of robots and I feel like we're going to end up being like that if we're not careful we're just like big guys and seat are surrogates um.
There is another film called surrogates where it's like I think it's um like a surrogate version of you is walking around in the streets which is like a young version of you and you're the old version in the seat that you're controlling the young version of you that's actually like GTA sty walking around the streets did you get a chance to listen to the um yes I did Jordan pet and Elon Musk yeah their podcast for two hours that that was really interesting.
Especially that Elon was like he's find I thought it was interesting him going yeah I was basically attached to um chat gbt or open AI should say and then got pulled off and even he's like I literally have no idea what's happened it's completely turned around which was very yeah really interesting sort of the sort of cluelessness of so I'm just going to try and build my own on T and do something completely different to uh go against it cuz there's some people in.
The world that just you upload your Consciousness to AI robots that then imagine the world being run only by robots and there's no humans anymore it's just such a random like and he's like no you should be supporting the humans cuz what what's the point of us even being in the first place which I just thought was really sort of interesting that people like oh yeah surely we want like even Star Wars hasn't gone to Total robots it's.
5050 or like a mix or whatever but just funny how it's like yeah we'll just all then teleport to be robots it's like even future armor doesn't even get that concept because it's that element of humor and connection and emotion and that type of area one one thing I thought was interesting is his explanation of his belief which is basically he believes in the religion of essentially like optimism right like optimism and probability so it's more a case of arguing Things based on.
Probabilities and things have high probabilities or low probabilities um I thought that was insightful and the fact that he like was kind of like pro- Christianity Concepts and Christianity like um kind of like beliefs uh and approaches and Jesus's teachings and so forth thought that was really interesting um and if there was a society that he wanted to live in it would be a society that have Christian beliefs as a base to kind of car on so I.
Thought just like it was insightful I found that the other guy was like cutting across him a bit too much and we didn't hear like Elon wasn't allowed to like riff a bit more than he probably should have let him like as the interviewer and I also found that he was using far too many like words to describe Concepts now I understand there might be a perfect word to describe a concept um and when you know that word.
You will use all the time however really I would say that there's no point Sometimes using those big words or or or not even big words or like conceptual words because you kind of like lose somebody in the conversation right so everybody listening will be like oh that person's super intelligent because I kind of like don't understand what he's actually saying but really he should use words to like actually explain what he's saying to anybody so there there isn't.
This like Detachment of okay I need to Google what that word means or or whatever so I found like sometimes that kind of throws you off and I have a slight kind of like working class chip on my shoulder that it's like I'd rather Somebody explain it explain the concepts for what they are rather than using the word that summarizes the concept so then we can all carry along with the all follow though it's the university lecturer of.
To a master's or or even a doctorate level and I think that's how he tailors a lot of his content I find that similar to Russell Brand with his language his language is if he's like talking to doctorates in English type of thing um but it is really interesting because I think being dyslexic I'm used to not knowing every word so long as long as I can keep on the thread I sort of don't look at the detail um that that helps me.
And doesn't always work but yeah and I have a preference for like you know when they take like a really um they they take an expert and they try and explain it to a university person like a high school person a primary school person like a 5-year-old the same concept and I'm like there is no harm that there is only ego right ego that comes with taking a concept and explaining it like a five-year-old right if I said I was.
Doing that then you might get offended right however really I think everybody should be explaining things in the simplest of terms so there is a a baseline understanding I understand there's going to be some Nuance there where sometimes a particular word will encapsulate a concept better than explaining the concept but generally I'm like try not to lose people along the way like carry as many people with you as as you can right because I think that allows then for.
Everybody to have an opinion rather than you've ousted people because now you're saying a particular word that that is correct and is is right but I now need to Google that word to like join in the conversation so yeah there's no need to so you need live live translations to people that are speaking at a high level maybe that should be an idea yeah yeah so it can pop up on the scpt so I guess different to captions it'll be live.
Translation yeah cuz there was a particular thing he was saying about like when people don't when people disregard God they go to like two is they go after power or they or they go after pleasure right now and like seeking their own pleasure now he was using a different word for pleasure I can't remember what the name of it was now but something ISM and something ISM and I'm like you just say people seeking pleasure yeah yeah you could say people.
Seeking pleasure people seeking power that doesn't change the con conversation you know what I mean but yeah people using intelligence for intelligence sake I'm fine I'm fine up but it's like let's let's keep the discussion open let's not like eliminate people from the discussion by using correcty basically the difficulty with that is by not using the Posh words people don't then think that you know what you're talking about yeah yeah because it's like oh it sounds like you're just on.
The CBB Channel like explaining some people like power some people like this and I think in a weird way I think particularly with people that know those words Del to some exent sprinkle it in to show this isn't my first rodeo like I've been studying all these years I've been thinking all these years that weird way is like a verbal justification of how long they've studied even though it doesn't necessarily mean that the person don't use that words doesn't but there's more.
Of a Buy in to it from people that let's say don't know the words they like oh he knows his stuff because he's using these big words yeah and I think that yeah that whole like he knows his stuff because he's using big words it can sometimes be a trick so we're using big words to to convey the idea that I convey that I know something more than you when really I should be using um simple terminology and simple.
Phrasing it doesn't mean that I'm simplifying the concept I'm still explaining the same concept that if you don't follow God you'll follow power or pleasure right same concept but I'm I'm bringing you with me and if I use the different words I've literally lost you so now like you kind of like lose the ability to speak into somebody this life or like influence somebody in a positive way right I'm not talking about manipulation I'm talking about positively kind like carry somebody.
Through a conversation but that that's just my preference I have a preference to kind of like not have a a a barrier to entry based on language purely because I feel like I've been judged in that way before right with some terms using the incorrect word when I'm trying to like get this idea imagine if you can tailor the conversation with AI to what age so you're like make this podcast speak as if you're speaking to a 5-year-old or 15y old and then it'll.
Just tailor it completely to be like just yeah cuz I guess you can change words so you probably could be able to do this so then you'll tailor it to their speaking at this and you could either tailor it up or down from what they're speaking if I'm honest if that like when that happens because that should happen because if we can translate you into Spanish and move your mouth at the same time that the Spanish kind of like articulation is is.
Happening then it would make sense right your mouth moving in as if you're speaking Spanish then we should be able to do that with like the kind of like the I wouldn't even say a simplification because it's it's just like Clarity I would say it's more so Clarity of understanding and it like brings somebody along I think more people would have things I definitely would have things set lower down like the age bracket really and I think that is the skill I.
Think for the fun of it I would just up it every now and then to see if I understand it for entertainment purposes as well because somebody could up it even though somebody's actually speaking simply like for example we are not using complex terminology and they would just like up us so then we were using all the heroism or whatever it's called right and it' be quite funny to see like the intellectualized version of us speaking the same Concepts and how that would.
Come across um maybe we could do that in the take the transcript create different versions so then instead of you're translating it to different types in YouTube You're translating it to like different intellectual levels you know yeah and that's it I think it all comes down to somebody feeling secure or not right whether or not they feel secure enough to be thought as as uh unintelligent or or whatever we we have like a I don't want to be thought as.
Dumb or stupid so we try and avoid that at all cost and sometimes you'll throw in fancy words to avoid that thing or you'll do fancy things that are outside of your like default Behavior or character that you would prefer to do just so you can fit in like I'm sure we've all had moments where we kind of like you know say some fancy words come off it's like watching a film that you might have not watched the one before.
And you you go to the person next to you who's that person or what do they do or and then it brings you up to scratch and then you might not need to ask as regularly because then you know what's going on yeah but yeah but that's I I think everybody will have a different preference to that particular kind of like approach but um yeah it's very very interesting very interesting sweet I think that's uh that's a good we're creating an app to do change.
It up or down and call it as if you're in the cinema and asking a question yeah no we'd call it um I think we should play on like the funny idea that we're trying to avoid kind of being seen as stupid so you call it hey stupid like I would use it so yeah but yeah I think um that' be a really interesting tool actually if anything you should we should take the transcript of their conversation and then explain.
This like a 5-year-old and see what that would kind of like articulate in the same way cuz to me I feel like probably create a YouTube channel with that yeah it would be like smokeing mirrors when people use fancy words sometimes and you just got to recognize who's listening you know you can still have the same type of elevated conversation with simplified language doesn't miss the mark but that's why I'm being careful using the word simple because even simple has connotations like oh you.
Think like you mean dumbing it down and I don't mean dumbing it down I mean like adding clarity typing something yesterday and wanted to use the word basic which for me is like a basic level of understand or whatever but I was like uh someone might say that wrong so I changed it to simple because I thought that's less harsh yeah which is funny I I even watched a video today that was like in marketing what you should and shouldn't do and it said.
Don't use the word basic use the word like foundational or or like essential or something I was like that's funny that makes sense right like cuzz we all have like next conversations when somebody's saying oh this is basic and this is Advanced and then it's like oh well you're piting us against each other but or it's like this is simplex simple and this is complex but even that might be like up I SP something mean recently I don't know this is not really to end.
On but I just thought it's was funny on T on end on but it was basically like if you had an X compared to dismiss less people do the dismiss so it'll like stay up long whatever you're seeing the exact same things I saw the exact same I near but obviously uh the iPhone read my brain messages and sent it you funnily enough I actually didn't understand what it was getting at so because I didn't I didn't look at it deeply I just saw oh.
They're doing a comparison it looks like convers Co like I'm not bothered about this because I think it was cuz I thought it was something in the way that's how I read it initially and then I didn't bother reading into it I just saw the stats and I was like oh it's some sort of conversion thing but then I was like can't but the conversion rate was based on a dismiss action right or a close action now you technically don't.
Want a high conversion rate because you don't want them quitting out you want them to do the action that you've prioritized unless they were saying that the conversion rate was related to the action and not really so that confusion I was like next Maybe by having a dismiss they're more likely to take their time getting rid of it and read maybe let's say you're sell upselling them something if there's an X they all jump to it because it's like I.
Know where the exit is dismiss maybe it slows them down and then more lik to do it but yeah yeah yeah yeah the yeah just press dismiss not the X which is funny so on that note keep hammering those nails and we'll chat to you next time bye for now stop.